Follow up to the comment thread on "On Forgiveness and Guilt"

Several interesting things came up in the comment thread on my surprisingly controversial post regarding the growth I was able to show in my attitudes thanks to the issue of people picking Andrea as a friend on Facebook. 

As I like to do when there is something that requires a lot of thought, I left myself some time to consider several things regarding it before addressing them. 

Before I do, I should bring one thing up; from time to time, considering the very different nature of some of my friends, at times the comments seem to me, as an interested third party, to be a bit personal in nature so I will make this request; please, do comment, as I greatly appreciate it and do read and think about every response. 

At the same time, I would ask that responses to other people on here be made toward the comment, not the person.  I appreciate it and believe it will make this a friendlier spot for all concerned where we can discuss controversial topics without people feeling attacked.

With that said, the responses showed the wide range of beliefs on what forgiveness entails and what responsibilities people have towards forgiveness.

I find it interesting that there is such a wide disparity, but not surprising. After all, there are many complicated Scriptures that deal with it.

Jesus, on the cross, asked God to "forgive them, for they know not what they do"...yet earlier, speaking to the Pharisees, when they claimed they would not have slain the prophets, he essentially foretold how they would treat Himself, the Apostles and believers and in so doing bring the blood of the prophets on their own and on their descendants.

Stephen, while being stoned, said, "lay not this charge against them".

It is hard to argue in either case that those committing the sin, either of crucifying Christ or of stoning the Godly Stephen, were seeking forgiveness AS THEY COMMITTED THE SIN. Yet both times, the victims sought forgiveness for their attackers.

It is interesting to note neither said, "I forgive these people" but rather each one asked God to forgive. Why the third party? 

And obviously, since both instances involve the death of the one seeking forgiveness for the perpetrators from a third party, forgetting could not possibly be part of the equation...or could it?

Hebrews 10:17 says, "and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more"

Naturally, God has capabilities that we do not. For example, the first time Andrea cheated on me, it was with a co-worker of hers at Haggen. Obviously, when we reconciled, I wanted her to quit the job so she would not be around him. She did not. As a result, every time she went to work, I had a fresh reminder of the event there and a certain part of natural concern there would be a repeat performance with that individual.

I never brought that up to her once things were settled, not even once. To all appearances, I had "forgotten" as part of the forgiveness, a stance many of the the church leaders at the time held to be the correct way to do so.

But it was not possible for me to ACTUALLY forget, no matter how hard I tried. I could sublimate it to other things by doing my best to redirect my thoughts whenever it came up. But I could not just "forget"it. It happened, I knew it happened, and I lived with that awareness.

I would challenge anyone to demonstrate to me how I was wrong to act in that way. I did not use it as an excuse to misbehave towards her, I did not use it to mistreat her, I did not hold it against her, but I did know it was there.

From a Scriptural standpoint, did I do all I could? I believe so. I believe I continued to do so as the number of affairs she had mounted. I believe I continued to do so as she thrice claimed to be with child as a result of the affairs and thrice turned to me for comfort when she "miscarried". 

Well, partially to me and partially to someone who we knew had gone through that tragedy of miscarriage several times and it was a sensitive issue to.

In fact, it was when I learned Andrea now claims to have never been pregnant that the forgiveness to the point of remaining married stopped. Here is a secret never before revealed, not even to Dad.

Had she not gone to this person for help when she miscarried and then said she was never pregnant, I would not have left after the last affair. Greg and Ivan argued very hard that I needed to stay. And I very nearly did.

But what she did without hesitation to another person not once, not twice, but three times...that was more than I could bear. That was more than I could live as if I had forgotten.

Not that I had forgotten...just that I lived as if I had. To force someone to relive the sinless tragedies of their own life to forge a lie of your own? I cannot stomach the thought of the horrificness a person must possess to do such a thing.

And this was after numerous chances. Yes, I do take to heart the admonition Jesus gave Peter to forgive a brother who sins against them "70 times 7" times IN ONE DAY. That indicates a certain level of intent, does it not? To sin against one person so often that you must lose count?

But this is one place I believe we diverge from the Godly example; most if not all of us have been told that if someone deliberately mistreats you that you are no longer obligated to forgive if they seek it. But that seems to run counter to the above passage; but wait, it gets more complicated.

think of the parable where Jesus speaks of the man who owes a great deal, goes and begs for time and instead is forgiven of the debt.  He then goes out and demands payment from a fellow slave who owes him an insignificant amount, and when not paid he begins to beat the slave.

We then find his forgiveness retracted and he is thrown into prison until he shall repay the debt.

So is forgiveness retractable? Does it include forgetting? Is it to be given even when the perpetrator does not seek it? CAN it be given if not asked for? Can it be requested on behalf of a third party?

I am going to go with an unusual argument for me; I am going to argue it is a malleable issue that requires intelligent judgment of a situation. Not everyone is a "brother in Christ", not everyone is acting in ignorance, and so forth. 

There are situations where certainly forgiveness entails forgetting or at the least, acting to all intents and purposes as if it was forgotten. At other times, there must be awareness of what has transpired in the past.

In any case, the original point I was making not only stands, I believe it has been expanded on. Forgiveness is something a Christian must not only stand ready to do at the slightest provocation, at times they must offer forgiveness even when it is not sought. That, it seems to me, is the closest to the principles and examples offered by Scripture. As for forgetting..well, it seems to me that only God has that capability, but we can certainly act as if we did.